Topic: a memorable goodbye

Wen Junhui: Actually, I haven’t experienced that kind of profoundly deep parting, maybe it’s because I’m still young. Perhaps it’s because I’ve had a lot of farewells since I was young. So it’s always been like, gradually growing accustomed to saying goodbye, then encountering a new kind of goodbye? It’s that kind of process. Even as a child, I was constantly saying goodbye. It wasn’t that I was away from home, since my mother came to all my schedules, but I was jumping from one project to the next. As soon as one film finished shooting I would go to another set. Another shoot or another advertisement. So there were always these little farewells. Maybe a significant goodbye would be leaving my homeland to a foreign country for debut.

Actually, during the time when we were trainees, a senior said to us, “You are going through hardships now, but after you debut, you will look back and realise it all had meaning”. When I think back to those days, there is so much frustration and sadness, but at that time, I thought this goodbye hurt the most.

Back then, I held the hope that, even if I quit and returned to China, I could slip back into my past life. But one day, I realised all my classmates had graduated high school. Suddenly, they were doing their own thing and moving on to university. And then I realised all the friends I used to see in middle school were no longer in Shenzhen. There was a feeling then, like the realisation of Ah, the place I miss is one I cannot return to.

But to look back at it all again, I instead feel a sense of growth. It’s like I’m saying goodbye to my past all over again.

Isn’t there a saying, “we will go through a second adolescence because we are repeating the same things we did in our youth.” It’s like when I embark on my own progress, but bear witness to the growth of others, I regain that original mindset and feel like I have not changed. But at the same time, I sense that the people around me have changed so much. And so, I suppose I am also growing up.

It’s just a regret that I hold. I don’t want to face that kind of goodbye. But I recognise the feeling.

Source: 中国有磁味 “China has Taste” episode 12 bonus clip [xiaohongshu/red note link]

---

Translation comments

• [中国有磁味] is a food themed travel/talk show that aired in 2023. Junhui was a guest on the last episode of season 1, so the topic of conversation turned to farewell and partings. Junhui’s story wasn’t aired in the final cut, so I only came across this clip when scrolling XHS.
  


• I immediately wanted to capture and translate Junhui’s comments. His words resonated with me because this kind of intangible goodbye was something I keep revisiting in my stories — where the tender absence is not so much for a place or a person, but a state of mind or a time you can no longer return to. I’ve explored it in once again, love, and it’s a theme in my current WIP. You may miss a person, but really you miss walking to school together, turning around in class to steal their pens, leaning over their shoulder to copy their maths homework. You can meet up again as adults but it will never be the same.
  


• (Tinhat mode) There’s other things here that I, as a Junhui thinker, want to vault up and gnaw over in my cave. Being adapted to a transient, unsettled life. Being okay with constant goodbyes (thinking he’s okay with constant goodbyes), arrested development of a prolonged adolescence, measuring himself by observing the people around him. Junhui so rarely opens up about himself, so I’m pinning this as source text for future characterisations.
  


• (Fan mode) Jun was so awkward haha. I’ve translated him more profoundly than life because I want the sentences to make sense. Jun’s a little like Mingyu because he speeds through words like he wants to finish his story and move everyone’s attention from him. He jumps through 5 ideas and doesn’t connect the dots or develop each concept and always says “this”, “that”, “like that”, “that feeling” 那个 那个 那个 hahaha please sir give me a noun.
  
  
  It was refreshing because I always see SVT as industry veterans in their comfort zone. But outside of kpop, their lives are just starting. I don’t realise how young and inexperienced they are until a show like this, where Junhui is the rookie amongst veterans. The way the others confidently hold the camera, talk through a story, engage the other hosts and link concepts, I can tell Junhui has so much to learn (and I am excited for him).

---

Full Transcript:

( Read more... )

In 2021, my Seventeen fic Weight of Heaven was featured on episode 33 of the Fic Clique podcast! If you’ve read the fic but haven’t yet listened to Fic Clique please go and listen to that episode right now. It is such an Experience and you will be blessed. It’s actually incredible to hear fic being discussed between such clever funny people. I feel like a fly on the wall listening in on a close conversation between friends.

For the third anniversary of Fic Clique, I decided to record an audio reply to that episode, to use words to thank Nic, Brenna and Reid, and also to continue the conversation from the ideas raised in the podcasts. Ta da! (31:30 minutes total).

download link

---

I mentioned in the audio that Weight of Heaven is born from fandom. From the beginning to now, its creation is fuelled by so much of the good things that happen when fans inspire each other. The original idea is a gift that keeps on giving, an idea that keeps escaping to run wild in the world.

It’s a little crazy now that the full experience of this fic now encompasses:

1. 2011: Glee Kurt/Blaine fic Permanent Marker by wynnie the pooh - the earliest occurrence of a ‘words on skin’ AU. (Possibly the origination, as the ‘soulmate marks’ trope also started in 2011 and this might be a derivation of that trend)
2. 2013: AU is prompted on snkkink, a kink meme for Attack on Titan.
   1. This prompt was filled IN A HOUR: falsehood is never in words by vype
   2. 2nd fill: Corporeal Vocabulary by bluebackstabber
3. 2019: a kpop fandom event, bleak boyband bingo begins.
4. January 2020: Weight of Heaven is published with its accompanying extended author’s note
5. September 2020: curiouscat conversations about the world-building (archived on dw)
6. March 2021: Weight of Heaven is featured and discussed on Fic Clique. (while you’re here, please also listen to the other 2 episodes where they discuss seventeen fic: now you have to let me go (four dreams in a row) by notspring and to hold it against your bones by Ester.
7. September 2021: Weight of Heaven remix - such common words, will they be sincere? by hannihoneybee
8. October 2022: hwarium records a voice reply to Fic Clique.

---

For anyone that has reached this point of the journey. Ahhh, you’ve worked hard. Thank you for investing so much time into this fic of mine.

originally a question on CC. I finished answering. I checked the word count. I sighed and opened dreamwidth.

---

helloo i read your meta and have also heard about this a lot,, but they said that hoshi was supposed to be in vocal while woozi in performance but then they switched? does that mean that predebut woozi was a better dancer than hoshi and hoshi was a better vocalist than woozi? and it was bec woozi composed and hoshi choreographs that they switched? bec i know that theyre both good dancers and singers but i dont see a reason why woozi was in performance even if hes a good dancer if he has always been a better vocalist then hoshi? like they say that hoshi’s the fourth best vocalist after woozi so if woozi’s a better vocalist than him why was woozi originally in performance even though hes already better in singing? sorry if this is confusing

Not at all! I get that you're asking about predebut roles right?

My thoughts about what you said other people said (hah) - is that it was just an impression from predebut/17project moments that grew into a fact over time (this happens everywhere, uncertain opinions become popular and then all the modifiers and conditionals are cut out to make the opinion shorter and easier to read, and it gets passed on). I can tell you what I know for sure and then give you my ideas!!

• Woozi always studied music and knew how to play many instruments, but "He did not believe those around him when they said he was a good singer"

• Hoshi joined Pledis a year after Woozi, so Woozi is the senior + was supposed to debut in 2012 as part of Tempest (along with Seungcheol)

• If you watch 17TV, Woozi choreographs a lot of team performances and is Center for many choruses (even now tbh!) . He also teaches the others and leads them in dance practices. e.g. this video (highly recommend youtube channel 17TVkor for 17TV highlights!! You'll even see Dino teaching choreo and uh, some teenage shenanigans that might be unbearable to watch haha)

• Woozi only started producing in high school when he met Bumzu. For more background you can read the manifesto, esp the part where Bumzu realizes Woozi did not need to be taught.

• the original "We're going to make it shine" vocal video had Woozi, DK, Seungkwan and Hoshi (July 2014)

• Bumzu (who was their vocal coach) commented that Hoshi was very passionate about singing + Hoshi said himself if he wasn't PU he would want to be VU. (twitter)

• Hoshi also main vocal'd a lot in 2014 + did the high notes >>> hahahaha e.g. One Direction One Thing Cover

• 17 Mixtape + 17Project team battles had a lot of different combinations (e.g. No Flex Zone with Dino + Wonwoo + Mingyu)

• in April 2012, Pledis announced a new boy group with 17 members that will be divided into different teams that will promote separately in China, Japan and Korea (this was the era of EXO-K and M)

---

My impression is that the HHU/VU/PU split came very late into planning, trainees dropped in and out, debut got pushed back, but also the market changed. Massive groups /were/ viable (Super Junior, and then SNH48, and then Apeace but companies quickly realised the Jpn model of idols won't catch in Korea). EXO fell apart, Nuest-M flopped, Hallyu Ban just appeared on the horizon, and 2015 was a politically tense year for Japan-Korea relations (comfort women). So the KRN/CHN/JPN plan fell apart by 2014 -- but I'm still fascinated by the conspiracy theory that Hoshi might have been the leader of the Japanese team (which explains his stage name. Hoshi = 星 = star).

Trainees practiced everything, and rather than saying who was better at what, I think Woozi and Hoshi are just insanely all-rounded idols who could have been on any team. I don't believe team membership were as simple as (best singers) (best dancers) (best rappers) -- alright let me put on the tinhat now haha

(first thing: I have never seen an official source saying Hoshi was VU and Woozi was PU and that they switched - without a source I'll file it as fan speculation)

• I do think SC+Woozi were better than most circa 2012-2014 just because they had more training (like SC would have definitely been a better kpop dancer than Minghao in 2014, same if we compare Hoshi vs Woozi circa 2012). Tbh SC could have done PU or VU but that kid wanted to be G-Dragon u___u

• SC + VN had crazy chemistry. half of the songs on SVT Soundcloud have both of them in it. So they would've stayed together (interestingly, the first song is Just for Fun and had SC + VN + WW and Woozi.... in another world.... this would be HHU..)

• Jun & Minghao were always going to be together. They are great at dancing and perhaps Jun could've been in Vocal if they let him specialise, but I suspect their language ability circa 2014 limited their options. Also Minghao flips. Flipping in kpop is like... the +4 wild card in UNO.

• Woozi could've been in any team. He's amazing and hardworking and talented and I admire him so much. Being in VU does /not/ depreciate his dancing or rapping abilities. He could do everything if he wanted. And in the end, it doesn't matter right? They end up all doing what they want. Now we get gangster rapper Minghao and ballad singer Jun. And Hoshi doing flips.

• But how Woozi ended up in VU... (puts tinhat on top of tinhat). I don't think he cared. He just wanted to work. They chose leaderline because WZ/SC/HS trained the longest (along with Mingyu... but that kid skipped practice hahaha). SC > HHU, but between HS and WZ for VU/PU, >hwa< suspects that it was just a matter of free time. By now Woozi was definitely producing with Bumzu and pushing out songs for debut and definitely overworking and overconsuming coca cola. He doesn't have the time to choreograph, so Hoshi steps up. Also, it's faster to learn a sing a song, than to learn to sing and dance it, so Woozi > VU leader, HS > PU leader.

But the true moral of the story is: have you heard of Hoshi Woozi Combo?

related text: nisakomi's predebut dynamics tinhat

This is a CC answer that went over the limit. I’m sorting to create the most interesting narrative/dynamics, rather than fidelity to their personality/values.

SC Gryffindor + JiHan Slytherin. I want JiHan together to get the same dynamic we have in canon, in particular I’m imagining Clap era when they had similar hair and looked like twins. I love the idea of Jihan with the school reputation of ‘slytherin twins’, as infamous as the Weasleys but also sexier haha. SC is gryff of course for his big protagonist energy and leader status = prefect. I personally think Josh is more Slytherin than Jeonghan who leans Claw for me. I don’t see him as ambitious compared to the rest of Seventeen, and he can be selfless, even under his tricks. JH’s biggest traits to me are his cunning and wit. Since Hong before Yoon, I can imagine JH watching JS's sorting then asking the sorting hat to sort him in Slyth not Claw because he needs to be where Josh is. "I could only do it because you were there" vibes.

ANYWAY. The aesthetic of a righteous gryffindor flanked by mischievous slytherin twins is the sole reason for this sorting.

Jun Gryff, Hosh Huff, Wonwoo Ravenclaw, Woozi Slytherin

LISTEN. AESTHETICS FIRST. One for each house for 96 line. I want them to be a found family that defies social customs. WW Claw self explanatory, WZ Slyth because most likely member to live in a basement (dungeon, whatever) - but I do think he has a lot of understated ambition and matched the sortinghatchats description of a slytherin primary, especially the part about how their loyalty is earned not given. Woozi is fiercely protective of those in his inner circle, but its difficult to get past his walls. Also if he is in Slytherin he can cuddle up to Jeonghan at night :) https://sortinghatchats.tumblr.com/post/190658751442/on-slytherin-primaries

Mafia Hoshi is such a Puff hah. I want people to judge him as a loud dumb himbo and then get absolutely smashed by him in quidditch. I also want teenage Claws to make fun of Wonwoo for hanging around a Silly Hufflepuff only to realise Wonwoo is just as silly. Hosh is very Cedric Diggory to me u___u kinda awkward in conversation but is scarily competent when it comes to crunch time. I'm also fond of Puffs and I want smart Puff representation (selfishly, its also because I'm getting into Formula 2 specifically Guanyu Zhou whose colours are black and yellow... its a sexy combination and hosh sexy)

Jun is very Puff to me (bc he is happiest when he make others happy). But. I want him to have Neville Longbottom's arc. Pure blood, childhood fame, but awkward first impressions, low self esteem, and constantly crippled by imposter syndrome. He wonders if he fits in Gryffindor amongst the Choi Seungcheols and Choi Minhos (lol). Its only until he believes in himself that he unlocks his true potential and proves his courage (I want this for RL WJH too).

Also once Minghao comes WJH will go from Longbottom to Weasley just for him rip xmh.

Minghao Vernon Ravenclaw because I want VerHao and cumulatively they can vibe Luna Lovegood (imagine them walking into the forbidden forest together, completely calm and at peace, probably in search of strange potion ingredients from a restricted book that Vernon found). Also the idea of a WonHaoSol Claw clique is deadly to me, what a visual line... does psychic damage from 6 ft... when they get in the zone there's a black hole in the common room where all sound disappears.

Seokmin is very Gryff for the same reasons as Jun (it mirrors his confidence growth over the past few years), but I want him in Hufflepuff to get Hufflepuff BooSeokSoon . Oh lord imagine them meming so hard in first year that by the end they get enough reputation to perform at the Yule Ball. When Seungkwan becomes prefect they do karaoke in the prefect baths.

Mingyu Gryffindor. Same as Coups, protag energy + jock energy from the books. (Imagine 11 y.o KMG setting eyes on Yoon Jeonghan and begging the sorting hat to be placed in slytherin only to be told 'lol no try again'). Personally he is Puff to me because of his hard work and earnesty, and the kind of heart-on-sleeve sincerity that I associate with Puffs. But Gryff because I think Gryffindors annoy Claws the most and I want Gyuhao bickerbanter <3

Chan Gryffindor. He has the bold and bright ambition that runs bright like a Gryff. Main reason, I want to work off the Coups <-> Chan paradox, leader that acts like a maknae vs reluctant maknae that wants to be the oldest. As a Gryff, I can set up the thematic parallel to Seungcheol before developing Chan as Seungcheol's foil. (Also Chan Gyu Cheol Gryff Trifeca is such a power move, SM Passion Trio watch out)

Wordcount: 6.6k. I will add pictures tomorrow to facilitate comprehension.

(this was response to a CC that was asked in october 2020)

Introduction
The Love Languages Theory suggests that people communicate love in different ways, and value different forms of love. Miscommunication and hurt can occur when people don't understand this difference, like a gift-giver who doesn't feel appreciated because their friend prefers words of affirmation, and the friend doesn't feel appreciated either. So the recommendation is to learn and observe each other. You can do a quiz to find our your lovelang, and read more here.

For writing it's a useful way to see characters and create conflict when there's no clear villain. It's fun to wonder if certain members drift together because their lovelangs match, or to draft the arc of a relationship by learning to speak in each other's languages.

The five lovelang are:

• Acts of Service
• Gifts
• Physical Touch
• Quality Time
• Words of Affirmation

( Read more... )

“What is it like, not knowing what comes next?”

hello! this is a place to talk about my fic ours for the moment. Thank you to everyone who has shown so much love and enthusiasm. Hearing your ideas make the story more alive for me as well <3

A lot of readers have mentioned that they would love to talk to someone, to share theories or just to yell and have someone yell back haha. So I want to use this space to connect people to people and spark conversations.

I won’t be taking part in this, and I’m muting notifications so feel free to go wild!!!

polite reminder

1. stay respectful, even if you disagree I find that you can have juicier chats when you ask someone why they think a particular way, rather than rejecting an idea outright.
2. please don’t quote what I’ve said in DMs, you can mention the ideas if you link back to the story, but I don’t want “hwa said XYZ” to be used as law. Comment replies are fine!
3. I trust you <3 I’ve heard some brilliant ideas and theories and I want other people to be as excited about it as I was.

[Anonymous commenting is enabled]

SC: final boss for a sports anime. His reputation has reached urban legend status. Everyone knows about him and how he defeated the reigning champions at Nationals last year. There's a rumour he punched a referee in the bathroom. On the court he's vicious and merciless but if you actually get to know him he's a whingy baby (kind of like Oikawa from Haikyuu)

JH: mmm using fanon characterisation he's the perfect femme fatale, the Achilles heel of the protag. dygonilly's background noise is a perfect example (explicit). I love him as the spurned-lover-out-for-cold-revenge because he would look hot when angry. And it would be the type of anger that simmers for ages. He would wait before hurting you. (Mal in Inception, or even Old Guard Quhyn)

JS: I vote him the most likely to have a double personality. He's /so/ high-functioning and hard to read that if the headline tomorrow was "Hong Jisoo confirmed psychopath" I would be like, huh. Unexpected but not surprised.

I see him as an extremely two-faced antagonist. The perfect gentlemen church oppa that is also a sadistic serial killer. Would torture victims with an eye-smile. (I'm thinking of Johan Liebert from the manga Monster which is an amazing slow-burn psychological thriller and my favourite all-time villain. Think immaculate appearance, a face everyone forgives, nihilistic quotes, and the most brutal murders)

JN: Jun evil? NoooooOooOoo. Was talking to a mutual about how he'll be a perfect fit for the trickster myth (loki/hermes/cupid/kitsune/sun wukong). He'll cause a massive inconvenience and be a headache to everyone but he's not intrinsically bad, just amoral, or, like kitsune, have a set of values beyond human understanding. (The way he cackles in the Mousebuster Gose is exactly the way I imagine a yokai would laugh)

HS: ctrl-c ctrl-v Don'T Lie HAHA. Most likely to be an antagonist in a slice-of-life story because of a Misunderstanding from something he did brainlessly/did not think through the consequences. He'll be very cool as a comic-book/action-movie antagonist, I'm thinking Catwoman because of the way he checked himself out in Dino's vlive yesterday bahaha (+ androgynous dancing style) If you're saying 'wait hwa that's not really evil' you're right I can't imagine him /doing/ anything that he knows is bad and I can't imagine him being smart enough to plan a scheme. And he's actually quite insecure and meek outside of seventeen so I can't imagine him having any initiative.

• Like if you gave him the trolley problem Hoshi would probably teach the train driver how to dance left & right
• he can't be a henchmen because he probably will do something that accidentally helps the protag.
• I'm looking at TV Tropes and… <Hero with an F in Good> ?>> <Harmless Villain> ???
• Like he'll betray you but it won't be for a bad reason he probably just wanted food
• btw <TEXT> refers to a page on TV Tropes
• this is so hard.

WW: when he raps for HHU I absolutely believe he can burn the world and I will thank him (see: un haeng il chi. Definitely the mastermind-type antagonist with grand plans that the protag + crew must work to uncover. In the grey zone his immense responsibility of being a hyung translates well to being an Anti-hero (big Byronic vibes) like Lelouch Lamperouge fromCode Geass (I'm trying so hard not to spoil, the ending of R2 is an anime grail). /God/ if we must then he is a perfect Homura Akemi [Madoka Magica] but NO SPOILERS. They're like, the kind of antagonist that the protagonist despises but they're antagonising themselves on purpose in order to achieve world peace/salvation. And because it's for the protag's own good, they are willing to be blamed/bear the burden of being misunderstood until the finale.(like the older brother who is working for the mafia so to keep the family safe?) UGH. my favourite type of antag

• if we're doing full-black he could be an <utopia justifies the means> or <necessary evil> type. I can see him making grandiose philosophical speeches as he uproots the status quo (Psycho Pass Makishima)
• his foil will always be Hoshi LOL

WZ: Ah, a fellow mastermind but unlike Wonwoo I see him as someone who is only an antag after being Burnt in some way and has now become a vigilante. Extremely cynical about the police/law and probably a foil to the naivety of the protag. See, Nine and Twelve in Terror in Resonance who are terrorists (but they make sure no one dies!) and the end goal is to make the public aware of a horrific past ('Remember that we lived" ;________;)

• I can see him as the role of L from Death Note though if we're casting I have to choose Jun to be the L to Wonwoo's Light for the Dynamics (Hoshi is Misa, Minghao is Matt, Mingyu is Naomi).
• If Wonwoo is an anti-hero, Woozi is an anti-villain (there is barely any difference just from the POV of the writer the tropes being subverted are different)

T8: Like /aesthetically/ he's a perfect villain of the Cruella de Vil type where he'll do Bad Things looking Good. Substantially he's a fiercely loyal/duty-first kind of character. Thinking of FE:3H Edelgard (going off tlist osmosis bc I haven't played it) > the kind of story that starts summer-sweet but then childhood friends are pulled apart by fate. Because Minghao's both sentimental and pragmatic, I can definitely imagine that a story where you meet him again on the battlefield, on opposite sides of a war. And he will kill you even if it hurts himself.

MG: (anon, at this point I'm choking myself to even CONSIDER this). An antagonist convinced of his own righteousness? I would love to keep him guilt-free and put him in a henchman role BUT we all know Mingyu Sexy Brain. Falls short of actual psychological-thriller-masterminding like WW/WZ but he could do a drug syndicate or money laundering scheme. The most antag I'll write him is the infuriatingly perfect counter-male-lead in a love triangle (probably in the same pure universe as SC and SK) (If anyone remembers City Hunter he'll be the Prosecutor aka <Sympathetic Inspector Antagonist>)

DK: BABY ;___; the most I could write is Frenemy, he's even too pure for a Rival (proof: rap battle with Seungkwan where he just... ends up complimenting him). He's gullible and faithfully loyal (to a fault) so he could be an early/mid-game antagonist that's just on the wrong side. <My Country, Right or Wrong> or <My Master, Right or Wrong> is exactly him. The way he keeps being convinced by Hoshi/Seungkwan's shitty mafia logic even though his intuition was correct...can be transferred to a story where he places his trust in the wrong person (childhood friend?) but his loyalty cripples from going to the good side. For a dark!fic, I can imagine his moral line continually being pushed back ("you love me, don't you?"// "his death is necessary Seokmin" // "they deserve it")

SK: Oh my god he is the antagonist of every high school show ever, he is the Mean Girl <Lovable Alpha Bitch> down to a T (that has a sensitive side and is actually Not That Bad once you get to know him). Related to my CC on genres, in a fractured fairy-tale story he could definitely be a witch that's just trying to do his job "Cut my roses and I will cut you".

VN: no. never. impossible. even in the svt mafia fics i've seen he's seungcheol's little brother that could do no wrong sazmqzqsd like if he IS an antagonist it's because the protag is a dumb asshat

DN: Young genius types work well as a foil or a point of insecurity to the protag. Like Hoshi, his professionalism is scary sometimes so hitman/assassin? He would go so far in a Hunger Games/Battle Royale AU.

My personal scale of unsympathetic antagonists from SVT is:

1. Joshua motherfucking Hong
2. Hoshi, Jeonghan, Dino (cruel but still cool about it)
3. The8, Wonwoo, Woozi (unsympathetic only if you don't read between the lines)
4. Jun, Seungcheol (unsympathetic but only very temporarily)
5. Mingyu, Seokmin, Seungkwan (impossible, would rather break my fingers)
6. Vernon (hwa.exe has crashed)

related: my post on svt's character flaws; TV Tropes Sliding Scale of Antagonist Vileness

There's a lot of anime references because I realised that most of the other media I consume don't really have a clear antagonist. I really like growing up stories or man vs nature hahah

This was an answer to a 200925 cc.

(DISCLAIMER: only take for the context of fic writing and plotting)*

Seungcheol - maknae/spoilt youngest daughter personality, risk-adverse, refuses to be funny, hits people when he laughs. When younger (17TV), tends to be clique-y and does not reach out to newcomers (cf. Jun, Seungkwan). As a leader, he’s more of a mediator rather than lead-by-example initiator.

Jeonghan: the obvious cheater/swindler/annoying older brother personality comes to mind. But he can give off the impression of a slacker who does the bare minimum because he’s tired all the time and always zones out on the side of interviews. His practised lines + on/off stage dichotomy can also lead to distrust because he seems insincere. He’s good at reading people and figuring out what they need but I think he also has a very stubborn side that we never see (E.g. the infamous 1.5 hour argument with Mingyu)

Joshua: has a diluted, chameleon-like personality. He gets along with everyone because he’s nice but? this can come off as superficial because he doesn’t appear to have strong views about anything and we don’t /see/ any flaws. To me he’s hard to write because he tends to adapt himself to the person he’s with. And there’s the whole multicultural/divided selves aspect because he is both American and Korean. ALSO! His korean is not fluent, he stutters a lot in interviews to the point where they have to cut and edit haha. So I could write him as forgettable or awkward.

Jun: BRATTY, uncooperative and inconsiderate (stomp stomp), without a schedule he exactly like me (on my phone, in bed, unproductive), lack of direction in life. (people who are overly ambitious and with a slight superiority-complex are allergic to this). Also insecure which means he doesn’t push himself outside of his comfort zone (extremely quiet in outside interviews and programs. only speaks when spoken to)

Wonwoo: passive and eager for recognition. See Castaway boys, sad when no one hears him, but will not reach out; super eager to share about his hobbies and push them onto other people then check up on them but not realising that they only asked out of politeness and not real interest haha. (I think it’s cute how he rambles) Lowkey petty if Hoshi is involved.

Hoshi: He’s funny but his kind of humour can be inconsiderate because he does not think things through (OFD Japan). Like Jun, there’s no brain-to-mouth filter so he can hurt other people’s feelings, especially those who are passive and don’t speak up for themselves (Wonwoo, Seokmin). For example, he thinks it’s funny to tease Seungkwan about his habits and will continue to do so because people laughed at it before. But he probably won’t know when to stop or when someone is not in a joking mood.

He’s loud and intrusive which can be annoying to people. Overconfident. REMINDER! He’s introverted so he’s very meek when outside of his friend group (see collaboration stages, shows where he’s solo represent).

Woozi: Obv there’s the hard-ass whip-carrying Vocal Boss side, but to me, Woozi’s not the type to offend others because he keeps to himself. He’s easy to ‘get along’ with because he’s practical and gets the job done. It’s harder to get close and get to know him outside of work (I think of classmates that always leave to work/study straight after class instead of hanging out). It’s more likely for him to over-carry his burdens and suffer alone (See, 17TV). Conflict can arise when he becomes stressed > becomes abrasive > overthinkers take it personally (Seokmin, bc he’s not getting praised) or extend emotional labour to figure out what’s wrong (Jeonghan, Seungcheol if he’s in leader mode)

Mingyu: Wahh he can either come off as extremely flawless or extremely cocky. I think a fic describes him as a mild-narcissist because he’s good looking (and he knows it) and he’s good at everything he does (and he knows it). You can tell he’s been praised all his life which means he’s extremely sensitive to failure (iconic lip purse) and criticism. Like you have to Fight him to convince him to try your way (See: fire fight with Minghao). Because everything comes easily to him, he can come off as proud and derisive because he simply can’t understand why it’s difficult for someone else. If he helps, it can come off as paternalistic and preachy. You can tell how difficult his personality is by how many predebut/off-camera fights involve him. Like Hoshi he’s overconfident (see Home? recording behind where he walks in thinking he can do it in one take but in the end Minghao takes him out, sits him down by his lap and runs through line by line haha)

Minghao: Can come off as cold, unenthusiastic, uninterested or just plain rude (see interviews where he would just look away as soon as he finished answering the question, where SK would keep eye contact, check reaction, and carry/link to the next point). Younger, this was because he wanted to look cool (you could seriously tell when he hated a concept, which can be unprofessional to some) but now, I think it’s just because he’s happier to let others take the spotlight and doesn’t want to waste the energy to talk over people (See: Insomnia Zero where he just, meditates in the back haha)

Edit: I think this coldness also comes from his emotional independence; he doesn't rely on others to be happy, so he doesn't hand out easy validation in the way Jeonghan or Seungkwan does. (This is why 8Jun is interesting to me, because their personalities are so dissimilar and they had to learn to work together)

Artistic types (esp when they’re still figuring it out) also tend to alienate people for their eccentricity. Runs hot and cold? like he can be extremely cuddly and supportive but also dismissive HAHA. Younger Minghao was also extremely insecure. Out of all the Sebongs, I would say he grew up the most.

Seokmin: Easy crier which can frustrate overly-rational people who think it’s selfish/irrational/over-emotional/impractical. Can be a doormat (‘please ignore me’ // 'okay I'll change the filter' vs Jeonghan 'I'm sorry we can't change it') which can frustrate assertive people. Like, Mingyu might not sympathise with over-thinkers because he's the “Just do it types” vs Seokmin who probably need(ed) a lot of praise before he can be confident. Can be a flaw because they can be helpless on their own. Also needs a lot of emotional validation. The type to take the ‘lack of praise’ as ‘disapproval’ rather than just, the lack of praise (See Insomnia Zero story where the evaluator asked a question and he started crying. Someone like Hoshi or Mingyu would have just bluffed).

Seungkwan:He has a very particular personality that is annoying to a lot of people (especially when stressed). I know some of the sebongs are tired of his nagging/vitamin endorsement/de-bloating exercises because he does it too much. Certain types (like Mingyu) could take the nagging as an insinuation that Seungkwan thinks he knows better/thinks Mingyu doesn’t know how to take care of himself, and get annoyed. His desire to ‘create content’ can come off as attention-seeking, excessive, or artificial. For example, someone like Jeonghan would want content to come naturally once everyone is comfortable, but Seungkwan would ‘force’ content to happen (planning gags, making jokes, redirecting conversation (see MMTG where he apologised for the suddenly serious mood since that wasn’t the point of the show but the AMAZING host was just, don’t worry just let it flow)

Also when SK thinks he knows better he can’t stop talking and probably can’t read the mood (see; story where he lectured the current trainees for hours).

Vernon:He’s like Woozi in that he doesn’t actively tease people so is unlikely to create trouble. Out of them all, he’s the calmest and chillest. Think of a hippie pacifist and you get Vernon. Because of that I can’t ever write him as an antagonist haha, probably at most a foil to the protag. The most conflict he could create is probably from people who are judgement/can’t understand him, similar to the point I made about artistic types like Minghao. If you’re not open minded, you can look at his fashion sense and think he’s weird or space-headed. He does attract a lot of prejudice though (see his school experience, trauma lyrics).

Ah! Also his personality can be frustrating because he’s very polite and conservative on shows, getting him to say something controversial or exciting is like plucking teeth. Also a shopaholic and a mess at home.

Dino:(psa I think Dino is HILARIOUS) Surprisingly has a dark sense of humour which lets me Speculate about all the grudges he’s holding. He’s made out to be a leader, but as the maknae to 12 chaotic hyungs he really has to behave. He’s amazingly patient but I KNOW there’s another side to him we haven’t seen (#BangChan). Apparently he fights with Jeonghan all the time and I absolutely cannot imagine how that happens based off what I know of his personality (will continue speculating, readers please engage).

He’s prone to dramatic speeches (see, history meme, Caratland VCR) and is very straight-laced. Can not get jokes or follow a gag (“but human rights for chickens hyung”)

Also who comes home at 6am after drinking alone??!!

*EXTENDED DISCLAIMER bc I’m all about covering that ass.

• I’m terrified of this taken out of context so please, if you think I don’t like them, remember that have a SVT Manifesto that’s all good words
• The point of this is for fic writers when thinking about how to create inter-character conflict in fics, or just character development in general
• Most of these flaws are good points in certain situations!!! That’s the complexity of people. Some of the personality points are only problems if they encounter another personality type, creating a clash. Sometimes they fit perfectly.
• For example, someone like Minghao would hate how Jun is always gaming because he values productivity and self-improvement. Wonwoo gets along with Jun because they're similar passive types and Wonwoo is the type to just let people be (see, tour roommates) A lot of these thoughts are based off my experience with people, so yours can vary and I would love to hear it.
• I can keep speculating about how they could interact but there’s… 13x12=156 combinations please let me live. If you want to hear something specific and enable more rambling please talk to me on my cc <3 <3