Seventeen's Love Languages
Sunday, November 29th, 2020 01:52 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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(this was response to a CC that was asked in october 2020)
Introduction
The Love Languages Theory suggests that people communicate love in different ways, and value different forms of love. Miscommunication and hurt can occur when people don't understand this difference, like a gift-giver who doesn't feel appreciated because their friend prefers words of affirmation, and the friend doesn't feel appreciated either. So the recommendation is to learn and observe each other. You can do a quiz to find our your lovelang, and read more here.
For writing it's a useful way to see characters and create conflict when there's no clear villain. It's fun to wonder if certain members drift together because their lovelangs match, or to draft the arc of a relationship by learning to speak in each other's languages.
The five lovelang are:
(ctrl-v the cc answer that created this monster)
now onto catboy line. I’m serious. If you want to characterise them just imagine cat behaviour.
(btw risa’s done a four-way table on 96z interactions)
Tangent!! Dino’s TMI News for Caratland 2020 is a good glimpse at SVT WoA. He cracks open their group chat and spills the tea on their habits hehe.
SECOND TANGENT. Bday vlives is a good way to parse lovelang.
Final note: I love to talk to others who have thought about the same thing, if you want to add or share anything please leave a comment <333 I don't mind it if you disagree either!! We all perceive based off our experiences and our experiences are different.
(this was response to a CC that was asked in october 2020)
Introduction
The Love Languages Theory suggests that people communicate love in different ways, and value different forms of love. Miscommunication and hurt can occur when people don't understand this difference, like a gift-giver who doesn't feel appreciated because their friend prefers words of affirmation, and the friend doesn't feel appreciated either. So the recommendation is to learn and observe each other. You can do a quiz to find our your lovelang, and read more here.
For writing it's a useful way to see characters and create conflict when there's no clear villain. It's fun to wonder if certain members drift together because their lovelangs match, or to draft the arc of a relationship by learning to speak in each other's languages.
The five lovelang are:
- Acts of Service
- Gifts
- Physical Touch
- Quality Time
- Words of Affirmation
Seungcheol
- Physical Touch. (Source: i have eyes and i perceive things — ester)
- This is the biggest one haha, deep down he’s still a baby, his family’s maknae, and a reckless schoolboy. He has an older brother so I think maybe that’s why his type of touch is quite aggressive?? Like there’s a lot of roughhousing, I’m thinking of: shoulder biting, neck grabbing, taekwondo throws (victim: Jeonghan, Chan), and hitting people when he finds something funny.
- Mr “I will take Jihoon’s first kiss” asamzqa alright;
- I don’t recall gifts much, other than how petty he is when no one gives him gifts on his birthday. But he and Jeonghan have the nonsensical tradition of giving useless gifts then bullshitting sentimentality (e.g. leftover chicken, used straw). Also he is absolutely the type that stays up to midnight expecting texts and then gets petty when no one wishes him HBD.
- WoA? Not exactly, because he values meaningful conversations and being heard, which might also classify as quality time.
- A lot of members have mentioned that he likes to drag people out to drink so that they can have long deep conversations about life. And he was sulky once about how all the members will gossip to Jeonghan but not him.
- actually simps for praise (motioning for members to compliment him during an interview but doesn’t like that he has to ask THIS KID)
- He has separate lovelangs for leader mode, like redirecting an interview to quieter members, paying attention to people’s energy levels.
- ester on writing SC
Jeonghan
(ctrl-v the cc answer that created this monster)
As a writer, Jeonghan's most outstanding trait is his scarily clairvoyant (heh) empathy. He pays attention to what /other people's/ love languages are, and then speaks in their language. So words of affirmation for seokmin/wonwoo, touch for cheol, and for josh it's like a weird twin-trouble-amplication thing. I don't think I can pinpoint what his needs are because he rarely lets himself be vulnerable, especially when you have 11 dongsaengs and one leader who is practically a maknae.
- WoA: big one!! Constantly reassuring and praising the members. But he does this preemptively, like he can sense when it’s for fun and when it’s actually needed (i.e. the moment Joshua seemed stressed in the Carnival episode, JH was so fast to reassure and keep the mood up). He’s also a great listener and a lot of sebongs have mentioned that they go to Jeonghan when they need help. Words come easily to him but I wonder if its trained or innate…
- Touch: Watch him on the side of any interview and you will witness … ass fondling, dick grabbing, ear caressing, thigh squeezing, neck noodling… you name it, he’s done it. When he’s tired he will choose a victim and sink into their embrace. Criteria: stays still (e.g. Minghao, Wonwoo)
- Quality Time:” i feel like we get little stories of him doing something specific with a specific member, going on walks, having a drink, playing sports, etc.
also i feel like the jeonghan's fave of the month joke comes from him focusing on one person at a time. he seems like he'd be at his best in one on one situations.” — ester - AoS: Feeding people things that were already halfway in his own mouth (Mingyu fish, Seokmin noodles, Minghao strawberries), and all the little things like going up the Bungee Platform with Seokmin. Also acts of CHAOS. I would argue cheating at games is also an act of service because he is creating Content and Memories.
- But in seriousness, his biggest LoveLang is attention and empathy. He could notice what the members need even if they don’t really understand themselves, and then give it to them.
- Gifts: Consistent but selective bday gifter. Flowers for Dino, necklace for Minghao, clothes for Mingyu!! (an outfit he liked when they went on a walk a long time ago, JH remembered and bought it)
- Fun trivia: GyuHan tells each other what they want beforehand, Jeongcheol… doesn’t … Jeonghan doesn’t get Coups anything because Coups didn’t give him anything, and Coups didn’t get Jeonghan anything because Jeonghan doesn’t get Coups anything…
- But had personally said he doesn’t do gifts (2020 bday live)
- I can give examples of him giving in every single category, but it doesn’t feel like its purely him, it’s not like he’s acting on a need, or for himself. Everything he does feel deliberate and chosen for the moment. And none of it is input.
- For example, his Wandering Hands are famous but it feels like a way to ground members when an interview is going on for too long, or to liven the stage. Same for his words of affirmation, he has the Words when there is a need for it (on camera, when members are stressed), but it seems in his default mode he doesn’t value talking as much (e.g. Coups complaining that Jeonghan never picks up his calls because he knows Coups wants to drink and gossip + JH’s texting habits).
- Also his HTR episode. From the way the content was chosen and edited for other members, I was expecting certain scenes from the Jeonghan episode, but those didn’t come. It’s like, when you read the beginning of a character arc in a show/novel, see the parallels to other characters, then figure out the direction of the narrative and how that arc will end.
- For example, in Wonwoo’s episode, you see the beginning of his burdens, the build up, the collapse, then all the way to the stage, and his reflection after. Then compare it to Jeonghan’s and you may notice what is ‘missing’. (Forgive me for keeping speculation to myself, I think this is something you learn to read from your own experiences, so I don’t know how to word it without being presumptive).
- From that episode, I understood that Jeonghan explicitly set boundaries about what could be filmed and released. I’m guessing something happened that crossed the line, and was cut out.
- I’ve mentioned this before, Jeonghan has a clear distinction between his private life and his idolsona. He’ll probably never talk about his personal struggles in the way Seungcheol/Jihoon/Minghao does. He ’s good at deflecting away from himself and maintaining a strong, reliable facade. So his true lovelangs will only show when he trusts someone enough.
- I feel this with Josh as well!!
Joshua
- Gifts: One of the more consistent members for birthday presents, which doesn’t say much considering the low bar across SVT, but Josh is generous to his friends even if he doesn’t spend money on himself (thinking of the Dior necklace for JH). Also his recent obsession with bracelet beading and gradually seeing it on the wrists of the members!!
- WoA: I suspect that deep down he’s a lil’ vain drama queen so, I bet his American ass plumps up whenever someone compliments him HAHA. You catch glimpses of it in behinds such as when he asks “Do you think my face looks puffy”or how he doesn’t like to show his no-make-up face (e.g. when Minghao had to take a picture of his foot for 1m17s) + 2019 when he started working out his biceps and wore sleeveless shirts to show off the gains + how he checks himself out in lives (same level as Kim Mingyu tbh)
- AoS When Jeonghan was sick… just count the amount of times Joshua checks up on him in ONE video.
- He’s the type to not show stress even when he is stressed (the infamous fansign incident + Carnival GoSe MC vs PD; when there’s an Incident, he just Smiles it away). I had no idea he had insomnia until HTR — I guess if you know these kinds of people you can extrapolate from what they show. Again this is speculation and I will keep it to myself but you see!! the Similarities btw Jeonghan and Joshua!!
- Is this an AoS?? To suppress your stress?? I don’t know. Joshua is hard to read for me, every time someone asks I just complain. If anyone has thoughts please drop a comment!! (anon-commenting is turned on!!).
- He’s similar to Jeonghan/Chan in that they have ‘broadcast personalities’ but for those two they place a little of themselves in the persona so I can make guesses based on what I see and it feels real enough for writing. With Joshua he feels like a starbucks cashier who downloaded the costumer-service hive-mind and permanently keeps it running. Or, the kind of personality you put on when you go to church with your mum. You feel?? It’s so hard to guess what’s in his head let alone perceive his lovelangs
- If you put me in a cage over a shark tank with my laptop and gave me 24 hours to write a Joshua-centric fic, I would go into my own experience as a diaspora kid going back to the motherland. That combined paradox of alienation and belonging, where there are parts of you elsewhere, but also here in a way you don’t understand at first, like going to a fairytale you knew in a dream. But you don’t quite fit here either because you take longer to read the signs and the menus. People think you’re local until you open your mouth so you stay silent, stay to smiles and nods and gestures. But confidence builds itself in increments, and you gradually sew yourself a new shape. The friendships you find are different too, and perhaps you end up valuing the people who see you not as a stereotype, but take the effort to pierce through the performance and see you as your own person. Perhaps thats why you rely on communication that transcends language, gifts, quality time, acts of service.
now onto catboy line. I’m serious. If you want to characterise them just imagine cat behaviour.
(btw risa’s done a four-way table on 96z interactions)
Jun
- What do I do with WJH…. he’s a chaotic but private person with an A+ in deflection. Has separate personalities for chinese/korean broadcasts… is a supermodel on paper and a brat in real life… makes BDSM jokes on lives… what do! I! do! with you!
- The Jun Chapter of my SVT manifesto has some meta on the levels of this dude, he’s an onion. The more layers you peel the more you cry.
- Defining his love languages is complicated because like Joshua and Wonwoo, he’s always self-filtering on camera. He thinks about what he feels, what he wants to say, and the probable reaction, and whether he wants to risk it. He’s grown a lot as well, so like Minghao, his lovelangs would change over time. E.g. 2016 Jeonghan wishing Jun would talk about his problems more vs. Jun HTR 2020 saying he’s too direct when he talks.
- “Sometimes I stay quiet when talking in Korean, because speaking in Korean I don’t know how to express my thoughts in a more clever way” (HTR)
- Also HTR: “I’m very different depending on who I am with” + not wanting to show his weak side to people + “I tend to learn from other people, instead of looking at myself”
- Oh shit I’ve deviated into a junhui meta post let me SWERVE BACK
- WoA: he loves praising others and placing attention on them. Like his HTR was explaining what he learnt from Hoshi/Seungkwan/Vernon; his infamous 10 compliments to minghao in 10 secs… the countless chinese pickup lines, his immediate reactions and cheering when a member does something talented/funny…. I think he’s allergic to talking about himself and his ~feelings. (svt repressed line: Jun, Wonwoo, Woozi).
- Touch: “clingy hyung,, follows members for cuddles but , unlike scoups who asks forgiveness & not permission he like, appeals v needily until people hug him LMAO” (andrea)
- because he wants to be touched so much, but is hesitant to impose, I think Jun appreciates it when other members initiate touch first. So I would place Touch as No. 1 input lovelang.
- Not sure what category this is, but Jun treasures the small things in life and loves sharing it with the people he care about. I’m thinking about how he took his mum to a tiny kimbap shop because they went there a lot as trainees (Manager: why didn’t you take her to somewhere nicer???!! Me: oh in italics) + saving all the incriminating photos that flood their group chat (SVT Club) + that time in a fansign when a fan showed him Chenle doing aegyo AND HE TOOK OUT HIS PHONE TO RECORD IT, THEN SENT IT TO CHENLE, NOT PRIVATELY, BUT IN THE ALL-CHINA-IDOL GROUP CHAT
- I don’t think you can describe Junhui’s paralanguages using the lovelang theory… I think he is the happiest when he makes other people happy. By imitating their mannerisms, by being loud, by being ridiculous, by being unapologetically himself.
- [Edit from Dec Tweets] on further thought I think WJH's ideal input is 2014 MingMing, memer!The8, and Wu Jiacheng, the infinity rapport mirror, let me explain: I still think WJH is happiest when he makes other people happy, I just didn't connect the dots that his input lovelang is happiness - immediate attention, obvious reactions, support, and the ultimate form: reciprocation.
- It's like the feeling when you make a joke and your friends laugh. But what's even better is when your friend gets your level of crazy and takes your joke and continues it and turns it into something crazier until you're both hysterical. Perhaps Jun is happiest when he meets someone who indulges in his ridiculous humour. Who laughs at his pick up lines then picks him up right back, imitates him when he imitates them imitating him - - haha these are some 1am brainworms.
- on paper this works with Hoshi, but it doesn't in canon, I'm still thinking about why. On paper it also works with Wonwoo who actually has the sense of humour of a himbo, nothing to level of WonSoon Oppa Car, but I think it will come! When WJH makes the first move. when he has the confidence to go crazy on broadcast (we're getting there!! Slowly!!). The stop sign in carnival is a great example and wonhui counter-fanon lovelang would be fun y (at least to me hahaha).
- this is also why the junhuification of Minghao is crucial to me hahaha. We already have weibo flirting, now MH reacts more bc WJH's cheesy pick up lines has wore him down! One day we will get Junhao ver. of SeokSoon grandmas!! I live for that!! (goodnight)
Tangent!! Dino’s TMI News for Caratland 2020 is a good glimpse at SVT WoA. He cracks open their group chat and spills the tea on their habits hehe.
- Cute Texters: DK, Woozi. They use a lot of emoji reactions.
- Emotional Texters: Hoshi, Coups, Minghao. They are all active, Hoshi is ridiculous (“don’t hesitate to give me an expensive bday present~”), Coups sulks often (e.g. when he needs to remind them to wish him happy birthday), Minghao leaves voice messages.
- Solitary Photo Studio: Joshua, Seungkwan. Joshua will send random photos even if they are in the same room. Seungkwan is sentimental and posts old photos.
- Heavy Talkers: Mingyu, Dino (HAHA). They are the most active, Mingyu makes typos often bc he texts fast + hands are too big for his phone, Dino often leaves touching and long messages to encourage the members.
- The Ghosts: Jun, Wonwoo, Vernon, Jeonghan. Dino couldn’t find any examples of their habits hahahaha. Jeonghan seenzones. Jun is loud in real life. Vernon is sooo taciturn. If he needs to reply, he will use abbreviations or even an emoji. Wonwoo is good at reactions? He will reply ‘'ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ “ but that’s bc he doesn’t know what to say HAHA.
SECOND TANGENT. Bday vlives is a good way to parse lovelang.
#SCOUPS bday gifts
— ˚\* ❀mi ;💜 (@miwon17_) August 8, 2020
Minghao: always gives him gift
Woozi: they never exchange gifts
Wonwoo: no gift
Shua/Hoshi: bought him shoes
Mingyu: asked what he wants but cheol didn't say anything
Dino: prepared cake
Jeonghan: got him 2 chicken drumsticks😂#OurCherrySCOUPSday@pledis_17
- Definite gift givers: Minghao, Shua, Hosh
- Wants to give gifts but does not want to think: Mingyu
- Gifts are a love language?: Woozi, Wonwoo
- Probably forgot: Jun, DK, Seungkwan
- Ungrateful: Jeonghan
SC: “hug them with all my strength” (rip)
JH: flowers (fanservice answer plz yjh)
JS: buy them food
JN: bring them to eat ice cream (child to child lovelang right here)
HS: dance for them
WW: a “perfect picnic during the weekend” (yes but jww will you confess a year later)
WZ: sing for them
T8: try to get closer to them (wow the only reasonable answer I relate with)
MG: directly tell them “I love you” (asmqzkla)
DK: call their name and “hug them warmly” (ASMQZKLA)
SK: write a love letter
VN: give them a present made by himself
DN: write lyrics and sing
JH: flowers (fanservice answer plz yjh)
JS: buy them food
JN: bring them to eat ice cream (child to child lovelang right here)
HS: dance for them
WW: a “perfect picnic during the weekend” (yes but jww will you confess a year later)
WZ: sing for them
T8: try to get closer to them (wow the only reasonable answer I relate with)
MG: directly tell them “I love you” (asmqzkla)
DK: call their name and “hug them warmly” (ASMQZKLA)
SK: write a love letter
VN: give them a present made by himself
DN: write lyrics and sing
Alright back to business, here’s a picture to represent how I feel about the tangenting
Hoshi
- WoA: this kid loves his words of affirmation I don’t think he even realises it himself. He’s like a child that gets this feels Good and would like to the feeling again please thank you, but has no idea how so he will go on pressing buttons until the serotonin is dispensed hahaha.
- Like he unconsciously fishes for compliments? Whenever he’s watching another idol and says “Oh his body is good,” Jeonghan will immediately say “your body is good too Hoshi~” and he will fluff up like a baby chick haha. Or on shows when he secretly motions to Mingyu that he has something to say and Mingyu will redirect the conversation expecting Good Content but no. Soonyoung has nothing to say he just wants the attention and Mingyu will act betrayed and call him out but Kwon Soonyoung has no regrets.
- He also gives a lot of praise! “in their twt interview he praises Jihoon’s work ethic + home;run behind he praises Minghao’s funky lil spin” (ty klav)
- His touch scale is interesting because he definitely likes it, but whether he initiates depends on the person. For example he’s very affectionate towards Chan (aggressive cheek rubs), loves to tease Jihoon and adores dragging Wonwoo into trouble, but I more often see Jeonghan/Minghao reaching for Soonyoung than vice versa (leaning in+ back/side hugs as SY zones out). No theory just thoughts (hmm)
- “Extravagant gift giver” - Risa.
- Also Quality Time!!! (ty anemoia) This one is less obvious but ever since he became housemates with Jeonghan the amount of vlives on Soonyoung’s bed… or playing with Seungkan’s dog…. has gone up (JeongSoon “married couple” era Sept 2020). The biggest example is Jihoon though!!!!
- He knows Jihoon is a workaholic and will forget to eat, so he waits up and makes sure to eat with Jihoon. He will turn down other member’s offers just to wait for Jihoon. And even if he already ate, he will eat again if it’s with Jihoon. I’m not crying it’s just raining. (source)
- related text for: geguri wrote 2.5k just on hoshi love langauges. they're a hoshi stan so a much better source than me u__u
Wonwoo
- Out of all the sebongs, Wonwoo exemplifies the the Korean hierarchy system the most because he has distinct hyung/dongsaeng personalities. So his lovelang depends on his relationship with that person (though all of SVT has blurred this line after so many years).
- AoS: So much!! He’s such a responsible hyung. He’s quiet and humble so this is hard to notice, but he readily takes on burdens for the team. I’m thinking of OTY Tour, covering Seungcheol and Jeonghan’s parts when they left. Covering Dino’s parts when he fell sick, and then in HTR, you see him overworking to the point where he has to be carried on stage. But he will not complain. He just does it.
- Good example is his 2016 performance with Jung Jaein. He made a few mistakes, but the story behind it was that the original rapper dropped out and Wonwoo was given the lyrics the DAY before. We’ll never know the full story, but I’m assuming they asked around the industry, asked Pledis who asked HHU, but in the end it was Wonwoo who stepped up despite knowing how hard it would be.
- You know what I think about a lot? TTT #2 when Jun was the last to be picked for a team. Wonwoo just got up and stood by his side so Jun wasn’t standing by himself. He’s incredibly considerate of other people and their feelings and I’m choking on this.
- And the time he was very sexy and took out his wallet to pay for dinner ‘because I’m the oldest here’ (Joshua: hello; Wonwoo: okay *pays anyway*) LINk
- Quality Time!!! Photography exploring when on tour! Museum dates with Mingyu and Minghao! Gaming with Seungcheol! But I’m thinking about his reply to Jun’s question on Anan, “Who wants to go on a trip with me?”; Wonwoo: “Not me because Jun only plays games on his phone and doesn’t go out… >:[ ” but when Jun said he’ll take them to Shenzhen (aka his hometown and a place he was passionate about) WONWOO DRAMATICALLY CHANGED HIS ANSWER TO YES. (ty risa)
- Gifts?: ’Today I gave Woozi a birthday present…. for the first time in 10 years”
- WoA: He’s super well spoken and has an immense vocabulary…. but WoA isn’t it. He’s notoriously quiet (Dino: he doesn’t really speak in the first place), both in person and on the group chat. Jun also said that if there’s a conflict, WW will text instead of coming over to talk. But perhaps this is because he overthinks. He’s the opposite of Hoshi who doesn’t have a filter, WW has too many so he keeps his thoughts to himself. When he is expressive, it’s normally after a long time of consideration, so all of SVT listens.
- Best example is when SVT did video letters to their parents (19~29min mark). Everyone gives lengthy heartfelt comments, Mingyu cries, Hoshi cries, Minghao is about to cry. Wonwoo says “Mum, dad, I love you,” and puts down his mic HAHAHA.
- But I think he prefers to receive WOA, or just, attention. Whenever he makes an endearingly unfunny joke he looks around hoping for someone to acknowledge it hahaha (see OFD Castaway boys when Jeonghan walked across the crowd just to tell Wonwoo he noticed him; or being so? proud? of his red tracksuit during SVT Club)
- Sometimes on lonely rainy nights I think about how Jeon Wonwoo is the only one that shares Hoshi’s sense of humour (everyone else is so embarrassed)
- + Junhui’s ridiculous humour
- But during Compliment Carnival he had so much to say?? Is he expressive when he feels safe?? I don’t know, repressed people are hard to define.
- nisakomi: “he’s funny and kind and observant and astute and insightful. he’s good at everything he does and he’s tolerant and warm and loyal and attentive. he’s open, he’s patient, he can joke around but also be serious. he tries so so so hard to be positive all the time. he’s emotionally a rock of maturity and stability.”
- Why do I have so many words about Wonwoo.
Woozi
- Touch: surface level he’s not big on touch, you see him making faces whenever someone talks about kissing him + the infamous hoshi rejections. The Jeonghan exception is quiet well-memed but he also has soft spots for Seungcheol and Mingyu (17TV JiGyu was on… another level)
- BUT I think he secretly is all about Touch. The biggest sign is the way he laughs: full body, head thrown back, and grabbing onto someone + all the ISAC fancams of him gradually sinking into Jeonghan/Seokmin/Soonyoung?
- Cat theory. If you approach him he will run. If he approaches you, prepared to be smothered.
- INCONSPICUOUS, PREFERABLY UNNOTICED ACTS OF SERVICE. Most workaholics are AoS types and he has this in common with Yoongi. Like Wonwoo, he’s willing to take on burdens and he will push himself to breaking point in silence, or until someone confronts him (infamous 17TV confrontation w/ SC). I rate him No. 1 Martyr followed by Jeonghan tied with Wonwoo.
- I think about the Christmas GoSe and how he could probably guess which present was an iPad by the weight of it and chose to give it to Minghao. Like this man is full of kindness but follows the path of the tsundere. Mum I love him so much.
- He’s similar to Minghao in that his deepest emotions will come out through his work, that is where they will be piercingly honest (What Kind of Future).
- For that reason I would also place him as a WoA-type, he doesn’t speak often, but when he does he’s incredibly sincere. I’m thinking about his birthday vlive last week and the late-night weverse post after an Ode came out.
The8
- Before going to his lovelang, I need to explain that I read him as someone who puts himself first. Not selfish, but just, rooted. His baselines are set by himself, not by the world and not by others. The ups-and-downs of other people’s emotions don’t shake him as much, but he does care about what other people think of him. So early Minghao has these defensive mechanisms that activate in the form of a prickly stoic gangster (in contrast to Jun/Mingyu/Seungcheol who wears their hopes on a sleeve). It takes someone incredibly good-willed (DK, SK) or incredibly earnest (JN, MG, WW) to whittle him to the point where he can express his lovelangs.
- Gifts: “LOVES to give gifts” (risa). From memory… shoes for Chenle, tiger painting to Soonyoung, 8 bottles of wine to Mingyu. Coups had mentioned that Minghao always gives bday gifts.
- Not exactly quality time, but the way to his heart is to share in his hobbies. I’m thinking Mingyu always coming over to 8Bar, musuems with Wonwoo/Mingyu, tea time with Vernon, and then all the other super random friendships he picked up along the way outside of SVT. Also during 2018 his peaking joy was when people dabbed with him.
- He likes to take photos of the moments he find precious!! You see this in the SVT Club Osaka segment where he takes photos of everything, and that modelling date (oh my god) with Mingyu, and of course, his artistic SNS shots with Wonwoo/Mingyu, but also mundane stuff like: Junhui getting a needle in the butt
- He runs hot and cold with touch? Like in some interviews he sits straight with his arms and legs crossed and then in some GoSe he’s touching Jun’s ears or holding onto Jeonghan as he falls asleep or clinging onto Hoshi or being clung to by Seokmin and I??? Baby why are you so performative. (absolutely not thinking about how he reeled back from Seokmin/Seungkwan kisses but SAID ON RECORD he prefers to kiss rather than be kissed.
SIR I HAVE NOT SEEN YOU KISS ANYONE.)- Edit: a dear anon has passed on the evidence. Minghao kissing Jeonghan One + Two; Minghao kissing Vernon (and me realising I actually have a picture of this moment saved from the lethal @literarykpop tweet)
- WoA less often but when he does it cuts deep and it goes both ways. I’m thinking about his
confessionreasons for wanting to collab with Jony J and that time on Abema TV when they asked him why he chose a question about his korean skills and he said “I want to be acknowledged” - I also think about the Junhuification of Xu Minghao but that’s another bedtime story kids.
Mingyu
- hahahaha I’m pretty sure the Mingyu Acts of Service meta started the whole lovelang discourse. What can I say that have not been said. I can only stand on the shoulder of giants and pretend to be a prophet of the people.
- quietly giving Chan courage when Chan was nervous about filming in public, motivation cheers before they go on stage, “becoming the strong, steady driving force the members sorely needed in cheol’s absence” — twitter user @mactsofservice
- Cooking!! Everything!!! Eagerly trying to debone and cook and clean everything during OFD Castaway Boys. His Battle Trip with Seungkwan when SK fell asleep and Mingyu just drove w/o waking him up. And for SK’s 2018 bday vlive he made seaweed soup, cut apple slices, scooped ice cream, wrote him a card, AND BROUGHT IT ALL OUT ON A TRAY DURING THE VLIVE.
- Fixing and styling sebong’s hair backstage.
- Cleaning the dorm? But not sure if I can trust this based on how indignant Coups was when Mingyu announced this.
- But lowkey Mingyu’s the brand of ‘exchange acts of service for words of affirmation’, like he simps so hard for praise (in contrast to Jihoon’s style of AoS where he would rather rot in his studio rather than seek acknowledgement). Mingyu is the good chonky pupper compared to 96z catboy line.
- Mingyu + Jun during 17TV were like… a perpetual motion compliment machine… an unending feedback loop… (“Mingyu’s so handsome” // “Jun’s so cool” // “have you eaten?” // “you should sleep more”)
- Probably has a praise kink but wait you didn’t hear that from me, you got it from tlist osmosis.
- Words of Affirmation. Mingyu gives and he gives and gives *___*. When someone’s willing to listen he gets so talkative. When he MC’d for Inkigayo the staff mentioned that he was so kind and so verbal in his gratitude.
- His thanks-to for An Ode was the longest and he thanked soooo many people by name and I’m immediately using that information to populate fic (but honestly, click on it, read it, and feel his sincerty)
- if we get anything out of the cock destroyers of itaewon scandal… mingyu quality time boi?
- Mingyu touch exists but I’m drinking 9% belgian beer rn and I want to finish drafting this tonight. MOST IMPORTANTLY.
- Mingyu lovelang is … earnesty. Honesty. Devotion. He is so easy to read because he’s so incredibly sincere in the way he acts. His eyes are a mirror to his soul. Like, watch his eyebrows during the Bungee GoSe, it’s permanently / \.
- Favourite description is in klavier’s Give Me a Tempest: “Mingyu is clearly having trouble holding his happiness inside his body—it hangs around him like a golden cloud” — it’s so true. When Mingyu’s happy the whole room feels it.
Seokmin
- I have, from a very authoritative source, that Seokmin’s input is Words of Affirmation (ao3 user earthshaker; A VERY RELIABLE SOURCE)
- His susceptibility to WoA is less obvious compared to Hoshi/Mingyu, and it’s different to their WoA input as well. Despite all his talent, Seokmin’s insecure and used cry in the recording studio when he thinks even his best is not ehough. He’s anxious and prone to self-doubt which are why WoA-giving members are so valuable to him (Jeonghan, Seungkwan mostly, sometimes Minghao, Mingyu). He needs the reassurance to conquer himself and move forwards. He’s also the quiet achiever type so members who notice (JH, SK again) and praise him (JH re: musical, SK ending ment where he cried) — it does funny illegal things to my heart.
- My theory is: no matter what anyone’s love languages are, they will adapt to Seokmin’s Touch agenda. He can hug Woozi, he can hang off Mingyu’s arm, throw his leg over Minghao and… whatever this is (Mingyu simping)
- Quality Time. Thinking about the tour roommates saga with Jeonghan and all the crazy skits with Soonyoung.
- (tinhat!) I think Seokmin leans to the less mentally-taxing lovelangs like touch/qt because he worries a lot about his own insecurities, which means he pays less attention to what happens around him and what other people’s needs are (compared to JH/Jun/SK who are always thinking about others). Again, this is not a selfish/selfless divide, it’s like. Interiority/Exteriority?? Seokmin’s down to earth and simple, so he communicates his honest and foremost feelings in the most direct way
and gets scammed during mafia. But he might not understand that other people can think in complicated, convoluted circles involving self-repression and martyrdom (eyes on Jihoon). Seokmin is sunshine, pure and bright.
(ty em for answering a cc on maknaeline lovelang)
Seungkwan
- One of the more openly affectionate sebongs and actively showers everyone with love, Seungkwan is a treasure. (He grew up in a family of women — Mum, Dad, TWO OLDER SISTERS, and this explains his personality to me in the same way Seungcheol’s family explains him)
- Touch: He’s a kisser HAHA. In Minghao’s 2019 bday vlive he kept giving Minghao these long loud smooches that you can hear through the camera. Compilation
- Quality Time: The biggest part of Seungkwan to me is his sentimentality. He thinks about the past a lot and he will remember someone for who they were, not just who they are now. I’m thinking of him buying DK the snacks they used to eat as trainees, the ending ment about DK’s growth. And he cries whenever he has to miss schedules because of his ankle injuries. And!!! He’s always talking about wanting Seventeen to last forever…
- He pays attention to others and his mind always switched on — his nagging could be annoying but the amazing fact is he /notices/ whether people take their vitamins or not. Most people only remember what happened to them, but the fact Seungkwan remembers is amazing. Is nagging WoA?? I can’t think of Seungkwan praise rn but I’m also tipsy drunk and sleepy.
- When he MCs he’s super focused so it’s only on the behinds + GoSe’s where you can catch of glimpse of him in his natural habitat. His PyeongChang Battle Trip with Mingyu is a good place for references!
- Gyuhao bickerbanter famous but BooGyu is funnier I think they’re underrated!! Because they both are petty petty needlers who don’t know when to stop teasing but also holds grudges like a sponge. Would not have stopped arguing if the MC didn’t stop them haha.
- Gifts: I think he uses gifts as a lovelang for people outside his close circle. E.g. giving jeju tangerines to reporters + gifting his favourite volleyball team drinks w/ letters of support
Vernon
- He’s hard to perceive to me u__u, not sure if because his personality is so /alien/ or if he’s just a private person. If you have any insight plz comment n inform me.
- Quality time: From HTR, we know he’s the type comfortable with doing the things he likes alone (+ all the random cameos of him on google street view and other shows haha). He spends time doing what he loves and his friend circle are mostly musicians, so I think the people he’s closest to are the ones that love what he loves.
- I think he’s simple and true-to-self. If he doesn’t want to do something, he won’t do it.
- I run off his relationship with Sofia + Tobi Lou because they are active on SNS and when Vernon turns up we catch a glimpse … like an endangered animal… spotted in the wild.
- He’s so laid back and chill but I’m thinking of him and Minghao during Ideal Cut tour doing all those tik tok dances… and then the crazy synergy he had with Josh during that chinese show. I guess if you vibe with him the quality time be high quality.
- Gifts: not often but when he does it’s 3 months late
- Not WoA despite what he claims.
- HTR: “I have inner thoughts that I don’t want to share with others, things that I want to keep to myself. Maybe that’s why. I wouldn’t try to hide that I’m having a hard time, but I won’t go around talking about it either. That’s just one part of me, it doesn’t mean that I want to hide myself from everyone. I have my own way of expression my affection. to people that I really trust. I’m free to show my carefree side in front of people that I love.”
- “I’m pretty expressive myself. So when people tell me it’s hard for them to tell what’s in my head. It’s an interesting comment…. it’s just funny to me… I’m not doing it on purpose.”
- lmao you can tell who are the verbose ones in SVT by the length of their HTR episodes… Vernon’s the shortest at 10:10 and even then some of it are SK/JS at the gym and JN getting stabbed in the butt. SC’s the longest at 13:24 followed by Mingyu at 12:49.
Dino
- WoA for sure. His dramatic speeches, long texts, sentimental words.
- “i think he finds genuine meaning and power in saying something earnestly and putting his feelings into words, even if he then gets clowned for constantly talking about making history.” — ester
- Has said on radio he often tells people he loves them or shares his gratitude because he thinks people won’t know unless he tells them (thanks nikki)
- sorry to reference this but the leaked video… (if you know you know) demonstrates he shows a softer side to the person he loves. Think gross sweet words and probably simping haha
- Everything else is a little ?? Because I’m not sure if he genuine likes it or if just pandering to 12 crazy hyungdeul. He doesn’t turn people away if they touch him, but he initiates less and often makes fun of his hyungs for being cringy. (But it might also be his sense of humour??)
- Exception: Kwon Soonyoung (cheek rubs, lying in his lap, mutual feeding)
- Would add Acts of Service because he taught all of SVT how to dance (see 17TV), I also think of him choreographing and teaching Flower as well as Jeonghan’s Purple Rose. I also love it when he playbickers with Seungkwan.
- Touch I’m not sure because he doesn’t indulge in it as much as the other members but he does simp very hard for Soonyoung
- Outsourced to nikki (a chan bias) about chan lovelang.
IN CONCLUSION
I am about to go mad. I have never answered a CC like this and I don’t even feel satisfied. I feel like I’ve only exhibited a slice of what Seventeen is to me in my head!! It feels like a misrepresentation and someone is about to sue me.
Love languages aren’t a complete representation of how people love. Like even for the the sebongs with the same lovelang, they could prefer receiving/giving, or have different conditions. And then there’s circles of comfort and dynamics, some members will prefer a lovelang with another member. Lovelangs can depend on circumstances (complete comfort vs on camera), energy levels, relationship progression. It can also change over time as people grow up, or become fluent in a second language. (+ with life circumstances as well, such as financial limitations or being time-poor. If you work a lot, you may have to compromise away from quality time ). And! Some people are completely different in and out of love. I think of Hwasa and how she confessed to being a complete fool once she likes someone (I think, in a 2017 interview they said this about Wonwoo). And! the bigger question of how people feel about love at all. I like thinking about characters as layers, and how they peel off the more you get to know them. Just describing lovelang feels two-dimension in a 4D space, but I tried to encompass as much as possible while keeping it useful for writers.
Love languages aren’t a complete representation of how people love. Like even for the the sebongs with the same lovelang, they could prefer receiving/giving, or have different conditions. And then there’s circles of comfort and dynamics, some members will prefer a lovelang with another member. Lovelangs can depend on circumstances (complete comfort vs on camera), energy levels, relationship progression. It can also change over time as people grow up, or become fluent in a second language. (+ with life circumstances as well, such as financial limitations or being time-poor. If you work a lot, you may have to compromise away from quality time ). And! Some people are completely different in and out of love. I think of Hwasa and how she confessed to being a complete fool once she likes someone (I think, in a 2017 interview they said this about Wonwoo). And! the bigger question of how people feel about love at all. I like thinking about characters as layers, and how they peel off the more you get to know them. Just describing lovelang feels two-dimension in a 4D space, but I tried to encompass as much as possible while keeping it useful for writers.
And I haven’t even gotten into body language and unconscious behaviours (ash voice: haptics and proxemics and paralanguagessssss). When I write a fic and decide on a dynamic I can open my third eye and pay attention to the nuances. It’s stuff like
- Who they look to when they laugh
- Who their body is angled towards + if everyone is talking, who looks to who (I can gauge interest + hierarchies of respect)
- Movement + personal space. Do they move closer? Move apart? When do they do so? Who moves first? When they are on the periphery + towards the end of a long interview, what happens? When they are full of energy, how do they act?
- Often attention is imbalanced and you catch members looking and the other member doesn’t look back (ngnn), I love using this for deciding who is the beloved and who is the lover.
- But tbh most of the time when I write fic for a ship I like, I already have an archive of moments that make me go feral and I just adapt and sprinkle throughout the fic. Like instead of Seungcheol Acts of Service it’s specifically Seungcheol spooning the last grains of kimchi fried rice for Jeonghan to eat.
- (it’s also fun to play with readers like this)
Additional reading if you’re insane
- SVT as antagonists
- SVT’s flaws
- My Curious Cat where I've done a few meta answers
- My desperate tweet when I outsourced to tlist, thank you to everyone who answered and also allowed me to terrorise their CCs!
Final note: I love to talk to others who have thought about the same thing, if you want to add or share anything please leave a comment <333 I don't mind it if you disagree either!! We all perceive based off our experiences and our experiences are different.
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Date: 29 November 2020 08:22 am (UTC)This channel is a gem for the interactions of these two: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuHPmJZUBJ1f_6Bp6sETf-w/videos
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Date: 29 November 2020 08:37 am (UTC)We see him on museum dates with Minghao, conversing with Jun even if the camera isn't focused on them, traveling with Seungkwan, in the dance studio with Dino, and sharing to us personal stories of him and his family randomly at weverse... and many more we have yet to discover because it's hard to tell where we're gonna hear it-- will it be from other members? from pledis official account? tweets? instagram? maybe on weverse? on Going Seventeen? Inside Seventeen? we'll never know until it's served to us haha!
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Date: 29 November 2020 09:03 am (UTC)(also big encouragement to any commenters to talk to each other!! seeing someone reply you made me so happy)
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Date: 29 November 2020 07:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 29 November 2020 08:29 pm (UTC)You are so welcome!! thank you for leaving a comment and saying such kind words ;____; I'm glad you read it and fond it useful. My brain is broken as well but at the end I felt like I was finishing an academic paper and was about to write (the next step is further research, because fanon characterisations in fics also lean towards certain lovelangs and...)
Have a good one <3
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Date: 1 December 2020 05:05 am (UTC)- delving into jun meta post HAHA a big mood...
- omg i think its rly interesting u compared (early) minghao vs jun mingyu seungcheol, who i definitely agree are transparent as glass when it comes to what mood they're in, but you called jun woozi and ww repressed line - and jun/ww/josh self-filtering. i also agree that jun's hesitant to talk about what he feels or why he does! i think it really speaks to jun's complexity and i personally think that his suppression of expression is highly tied to the cultural and language barriers (because even though he's more practiced in korean now i don't think it solves his communication issues because he clicks SO fast to all chn bg idols promoting in kr even though they must barely have time to get close before they meet outside of work) but i also have to admit reading a lot of posts about jun (ex 1, 2) is actually making me think more about the distinction between being loved and being understood...and i wonder if jun holds back to the members sometimes because he doesn't feel like what he says or does will be acknowledged back from a standpoint of understanding him in the moment rather than the love they have that already/unconditionally exists for him. that and the whole 'svt/some members didn't fully like/love jun at the beginning because he was so weird/they didn't get him' which i didn't actually notice when i first got into svt (12/2016), and whoever it was that said jun didn't have a best friend/soulmate in svt.... i follow many junfans i can't keep their takes apart LOL... anyway ultimately i do feel like everyone in svt fully loves each other but that doesn't mean that they can be fully themselves 24/7 because in real life those relationships are extremely rare...and can be taxing.
- definitely agree with jun being happiest when the people he loves are happy... it really is an 'innocent' worldview but at the same time i think he's very perceptive about others' feelings even when there is nuance, rather than taking their words at face value, though not necessarily perceptive in general? rot13 because this is going to sound like i'm a jun anti but (lbh xabj va fig oenva fheiviny ubj wha jnfa'g ernyyl pbagevohgvat gb gur zngu tnzrf eryngvir gb gur bgure zrzoref bs uvf grnz (jbajbb/ireaba?)? v guvax qx unq fhttrfgrq gung gurl xvpx wha cebonoyl orpnhfr bs guvf, ohg wha unq ernpgrq fbeg bs puvyqvfuyl yvxr 'jul! rkcynva jul!' naq qx bhg bs gur rkgerzr xvaqarff bs uvf urneg jnf yvxr bx arire zvaq unun qb ebpx cncre fpvffbef, naq zrepvshyyl wha jnf gur bar npghnyyl erzbirq yby... naq v guvax sbe wha gung jnf zber nobhg 'cnegvpvcngvat' va gur tnzrf engure guna nobhg 'jvaavat', be gur cererdhvfvgr gb jvaavat juvpu vf pbagevohgvat gb fbyivat ceboyrzf yby...)
- gift giving as a love lang is also interesting because there are so many variants... when you mentioned seungkwan's gifts to his fave vballers and reporters it made me think 'oh he's so good at caring for others and expressing his appreciation for everyone he comes in contact with via something anyone would love to receive' while something like mingyu's video edit for 8 was so specific to their relationship in a way both of them would treasure deeply i'm sure. there's gifts that are generic but nice, some gifts are the giver wanting to positively impact the receiver via their own treasured items (generic example giving someone ur fave book without knowing if they'd like it) but gifts that target the receiver's desires or needs without the receiver asking for them i think are the most difficult to pull off... and really require thought and effort to get to that point. i have the feeling minghao is mostly the latter even if the gifts are sort of obvious from our perspective haha, it still takes care to choose the perfect thing.
- honestly your coups section just made me think how much of coups lovelang could be a study based entirely on his relationship with jeonghan lol... i am not an expert in that field (anymore?) but there is just so much going on there. again i think coups' many positive and negative attributes make his expressions and desires for love really complicated and interesting
- i love how you said jeonghan has idolsona... now i want to see a cc on who in svt has the strongest separation between idolsona and personal life and if u say the word i will send this to you >:D jeonghan gives so much of himself to the members but i do feel he is a person who needs to keep some things to himself or he'll burn out...
- jihan love language of incomprehensible understanding. i know it's not the first time he's said this but when josh shouted out to yjh in carnival that he was one of the reasons josh could endure his training period it really felt so sincere and real to me that he thinks about that even now, how fundamental yjh is to his life (and the other way around obviously) because of that shared experience and everything that has happened since. and since they're practically from two different worlds (kr born vs la boy) it's truly one of those relationships that feels entirely born by chance but clicks perfectly because of the circumstances. when you look at their inside jokes/the way they express 'love' to each other through pranks and suffering but are so fully comfortable with each other and so sincerely care about each other... i have a disease. some relationships you'd never be able to replicate in your life no matter how hard you tried.
- tangential but for all their similarities (pranksters, quiet around strangers) they have such a different presence within the group dynamic. i'm not sure what other groups you pay attention to but in my experience, american-born kpop idols are subdued in korea but once they're given a social media presence of their own they really find their own comfort zone/making content with other foreign idols. i don't really know josh's ambitions or priorities/his feelings about continuing promotion with svt but i think aside from -- (you know how despite being fluent in english, neither josh or vernon is particularly good at articulating themselves on american variety segments haha) his own quieter personality he really just can't express all of himself due to the cultural difference, not even that he's not allowed to but like jun he doesn't know how to 'translate' those words or actions into something the korean public/fanbase would really get.. haha :(
- kwonhosh affection shower... what you said about him not initiating with yjh and xmh as much was interesting though, hadn't noticed that and will keep an eye out!! hoshy is very interesting.. but again so much going on there that i dont have the capacity to understand atm asdjfld
- wonu words on his own terms, ljh too... i get the impression they're succinct in most prompted situations because it's hard to generate words without the immediate feelings and they would rather be generic than fake (unlike seungkwan who would probably wax sentimental on the toilet) but like you said they're quite capable of essays when they want to express themselves
- vn expression is really so funny... agree with above commentor about quality time, would add consideration of cultural gap to his already existing 4dness but most importantly he really does his own thing without caring about what other people think and that's so iconic of him, for him i'd love to see analysis on verkwan vs v8 dynamics just wrt understanding each other's concerns, bantering, places of comfort, expressions of love etc because i think for both r/s they're just so different LOL
i know this was an essay in itself but if anyone would appreciate it i hope it'd be you >_
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Date: 5 January 2021 10:34 pm (UTC)a friend of me directed me to this post and it has peeled me to no end so thank you very much, first off. i hope me commenting here doesn't creep you out >< if it does, my apologies.
if i commented thoughts on Every member i think i wld be here all day and i am sick and coughing so i will restrain myself to wonwoo only.
one thing ive noticed wonwoo does a lot in interviews is, instead of speaking up a lot for himself, he will usually pitch in to help the member that is MCing. Or just help a member in general. This has happened in two Ananweb interviews (1,2). In (1), he offered to sing a song for Hoshi to dance to, where originally he would have been made to dance w/o any music. In (2), he repeatedly speaks up whenever svt is being too rambunctious to help Seungkwan continue with the interview AND when it got a tad bit silent because of Joshua's question for Dokyeom, he immediately complimented Josh saying it's a good question !
it seems to me that Jeon Wonwoo employs WoA as if it were an act of service. and i love him very much and greatly.
edit: I WANTED TO KEEP THIS SHORT DAMNIT YOON JEONGHAN
i think jeonghan's input love language is just the act of love itself. i think he knows and understands every member's way of expressing their affection and he takes deep pleasure and delight in all of them equally. BUT THIS THEN ALSO LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT HIS INPUT LOVE LANGUAGE IS QUALITY TIME.
cos i think for someone who so clearly draws the line between on-cam and off-cam, being known and perceived for who he is means a lot to him and you cannot be known or perceived without having people spend a Significant time with (or on) you. a close second for input love language i think would be acts of service. i just think jeonghan has a penchant for devotion in human relationships is all.
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Date: 18 January 2021 05:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 19 January 2021 12:06 am (UTC)About Jun and Hoshi
Date: 15 November 2021 08:23 am (UTC)Re: About Jun and Hoshi
Date: 15 November 2021 08:40 am (UTC)Re: About Jun and Hoshi
Date: 20 November 2021 03:06 pm (UTC)I love the point about hoshi completely putting himself in, or taking himself out. I've never seen it that way and now I will!! Completely agree. This is completely theoretical, and I'm thinking that perhaps Jun will never be comfortable if Hoshi was completely selfless towards him, because Jun is happiest making other people happy, and for someone to be happy when /he's happy/ - for someone to /want/ to be completely focused on Jun being himself - that would make him short-circuit. Because then he would want to do something /for/ that person and there's nothing he could do (c.f. wonhui roommates. Junhui is completely ok for Wonwoo to talk at him while he plays games in bed. But we rarely see Jun sitting still with Vernon vibing out). When 1+1 meets a stone, the result is mental collapse.
That solves part of it! But I'm still curious about Jun -> Hoshi when Hoshi is putting himself completely in. As you said, Jun requires both of them to be there, so why doesn't Jun multiply extrovert, stage monster Hoshi? My thoughts are so insubstantial and baseless right now, but my guess is Hoshi is also incredibly independent and self centered - not in a bad way!! I'm thinking of him solo-filming Spider during the treasure island gose, or the monologue during mice-hunters. His uncontrollable spoilers, random jokes, sudden posing, concert ments... his personality is so big that it doesn't leave room for others. You just have to observe. And Jun, not understanding Hoshi, can only observe and not give.
(This question may be better directed at tofuflower/geguri who has written much more extensively on hoshi, or nisakomi for jun - let me see if they have thoughts)
Re: Jeonghan-Hoshi and hobbies. I think you can share /in/ hobbies without doing the hobby. Like you would be happy just to share the moment with them - like Hoshi being completely useless during the gaming episode but still /there/ watching other members slay the game. The fact that they spend so much time together as Seventeen, and then still choose to spend time together makes my heart warm!! Introverts normally need to be alone to heal and regain energy, so it says so much when Hoshi rests by spending time with Jeonghan. (Let me know if I answered your question, I think I just threw my thoughts at you about this)
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Date: 30 October 2022 08:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 30 October 2022 11:03 pm (UTC)All the best for nanowrimo!! cheering you on !!
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Date: 31 October 2022 12:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 1 November 2022 02:06 am (UTC)